May 2 2011

Cold open: the Deuteronomy Dan debacle and the night's agenda

The show opens with a failed bit — 'Deuteronomy Dan was supposed to be in and rocking' — and a short back-and-forth where a host can't deliver it. The hosts then set the night's agenda: a phone conversation with a guest about end-times claims, and the biblical perspective on the death of Osama bin Laden, which the hosts describe as roughly a 50-50 split among faith-based folks between glorifying the death and sorrowing that someone went to hell who could have gone to heaven.

Interview intro: meeting guest Steve Brooks

The pre-recorded phone interview begins. The hosts tease the night's topics — including the biblical perspective on Osama bin Laden — then introduce their guest Steve, thanking him for coming on and confirming he is the founder of Boone Bible Ministries before asking him to share his background.

Steve Brooks' testimony and the founding of Boone Bible Ministries

Steve describes coming to faith around the fall of 2003 while driving home from his job in Ames to Boone, when he heard a deep-voiced call-in host on Family Radio 91.3. He says he founded Boone Bible Ministries — of which he is the only official member — purely to obtain IRS 501c3 status for cheap nonprofit postcard mailing, then pivoted to billboards about May 21 when God 'steered him away from the postcard idea.' The hosts found him through one of those billboards. He filed articles of incorporation with the state of Iowa the previous March.

Steve lays out the May 21, 2011 date calculation

• How did Harold Camping arrive at May 21, 2011 as the date of Judgment Day?

Asked to condense the case for May 21 into a few minutes, Steve presents Harold Camping's biblical numerology: the Bible speaks in figures and similitudes; Genesis 7:4 gives Noah seven days before the flood; Psalm 90:4 makes a day as a thousand years; expanding seven days to 7,000 years from the flood lands on 2011, with May 21 as the 17th day of the second month (the flood's anniversary date). He acknowledges the argument is 'built on a lot of other information' but calls it simple to understand.

The false-prophet test: Deuteronomy 18, Jonah, Noah, and the watchman

• Does predicting a wrong end-date make Harold Camping a false prophet under Deuteronomy 18?

The hosts press Steve on whether a man can be trusted when his prediction would biblically make him a false prophet. Steve distinguishes between claiming to hear a direct word from God (Deuteronomy 18) and erring in interpretation, arguing interpretation errors don't make someone a false prophet. The discussion runs through Jonah's warning to Nineveh, Noah's pre-flood warning, and the Ezekiel 33 watchman mandate to declare God's word — with Steve insisting believers are mandated to warn people.

The church age has ended: believers should leave local congregations

Steve presents the Camping position that the church age has ended: the Greek ecclesia distinguishes the organism of believers from local congregations, and the Bible anticipates a time when the local-church program would stop. Alongside this he teaches salvation as an inward change — someone is saved when God gives them a new spirit, 'born from above'; works are only a ruler by which to examine oneself. The hosts push back, calling it a broad brush to paint every local church as violating God's purpose.

Assurance, works, strong delusion, and why warn the world

• What is the benefit of alerting the world that Judgment Day is coming?

The hosts probe assurance ('how do you know you're not saved vs. not yet chosen'), works as a ruler, and Steve's claim that God gives those in local congregations over to 'a strong delusion.' Steve says preachers' Bible verses carry the power to save and that handing out gospel tracts is enough environment for God to save people. The hosts press the benefit of alerting the world, and Steve says they are in 'stage three' — spreading the warning that Judgment Day is coming in 19 days, on May 21. The exchange surfaces a limited-atonement tension: if Christ paid for everyone's sins, no one could go to hell.

Interview wrap: the 1994 miscalculation, May 22nd, and 1 Thessalonians 5

• What do you do on May 22nd if the rapture does not happen?

Wrapping up, the hosts ask about Camping's earlier 1994 prediction — Steve calls it a miscalculation but insists there is now sufficient biblical proof that May 21 is it. They press what changes on May 22, and whether believing the date becomes a works-test of being on God's good terms. Steve appeals to 1 Thessalonians 5:3 ('peace and safety') and Daniel 12:4 ('in the time of the end, knowledge shall be increased'), arguing believers in the light can know the season even though 'no one will know the date or the time' is the usual objection. The hosts thank Steve and sign off the interview.

Music interlude and station break

A song plays with lyrics about hope and judging wrong ('My race, my religion'), followed by the station stinger: 'And you're listening to Live from the Path on livefromthepath.org.'

Post-interview reactions: 'My brain hurts'

Back in the studio, the hosts react: 'My brain hurts,' and 'he knows his Bible.' They weigh the church-age-is-over premise against their own experience — that the inspired Word points back to Jesus Christ — and wrestle with the works tension: Jesus did the work and believers are incapable of earning it, yet obedience is expected. They note the premise makes everyone who disagrees 'way off,' including themselves.

Pushing back on the church claims; 2 Peter 3:9

The hosts push back on standing outside the church circle to condemn it: people in churches are fallible, but the picture of God's enemies doesn't describe ordinary believers. They find it hard to swallow a system where belief in the date becomes the test of election, and cite 2 Peter 3:9 ('God is not slow... not wanting anyone to perish'), Romans 3:23 ('all have fallen short'), and John 14:6 — arguing Steve's framework takes power out of Jesus' sacrifice.

Jonah's Nineveh, Camping's Open Forum, heretic-or-dummy, and the end-is-near bus

The hosts return to Jonah: Nineveh repented and God withheld judgment, undermining rigid date-setting. One host does an impression of Camping's Family Radio call-in show Open Forum ('Welcome to Open Forum,' pages turning). They pose the question — is Camping a heretic or a dummy — and allow that doctrine taught by demons is dangerous, while most followers are sincere. Banter follows about the billboards and a host's wife spotting an 'end is near' bus on the highway, plus a joke about emptying your bank account on May 20th.

Thief in the night, a Calvinism tangent, and giving Steve credit

The hosts work through Camping's 1 Thessalonians 5 argument — that believers as 'children of the light' won't have the day come as a thief — and find the logic strained. A tangent on election and Calvinism follows ('that's not even Calvinism'). They close the Camping discussion by giving Steve genuine credit: it took courage to come on and boldly proclaim what he believes without being judgmental, and they pray God changes his heart if he's wrong.

'Today was supposed to be the rapture': May 22nd, October, and readiness

• What do you do on May 22nd if the rapture does not happen?

The hosts note today — May 21 — was supposed to be the rapture, and joke through the aftermath: what do you do on May 22nd, 23rd, 24th? Camping's revised date of October gets an 'Until October.' They turn serious with the readiness question — 'If it was in the next 10 minutes, are you ready?' — then a comedy bit: one host misuses the word 'theocracy,' another looks it up ('a system of government by priests claiming a divine commission'), and they riff on being outside the system.

Camping wrap-up: next church, works vs faith, Hebrews 10:25, Melchizedek puppet

Wrapping the topic, the hosts joke that they will be starting their next church and untangle the faith-vs-works tautology — that believing Jesus died for your sins must show up as obedience, yet works can't save. One host describes listening to sermons over lunch and wondering if he is the guy to confront Steve. They affirm they will keep meeting together (Hebrews 10:25: 'We will not cease to go on meeting like some are prone to') and close the chapter with a tithing joke about getting 'a Melchizedek puppet' to collect 10%.

Listener question: is it natural to hesitate at Christ's return?

• Is it natural to feel hesitancy about God's return, given your attachments to the world you are in?

A listener question attributed in the transcript to 'Carson' is read on-air: is it natural to feel hesitancy about God's return given your attachments to the world you're in? One host answers bluntly that it's a sign of spiritual shallowness and admits he's been there; the others name what they'd miss — family, marriage, the night crew, the kids — while one says if Jesus had come back before he was married he probably wouldn't have been disappointed.

What is heaven like? Gold lace, 72 virgins, and the baby analogy

The hosts admit heaven is hard to picture in terms of what humans call great. They riff on biblical descriptions (gold, lace), the Islamic promise of 72 virgins ('that runs out after a while'), and a baby-in-the-womb analogy for not grasping what's next, plus a cotton-candy tangent and a 'live from the past Carson Street' gag. They conclude they should do a full heaven show — but note only someone who's been there could really be an expert.

Osama bin Laden: celebrating justice vs mourning eternal damnation

• Is it okay for Christians to celebrate at the death of Osama bin Laden?

The hosts take up the biblical perspective on bin Laden's death: part of one host celebrates 'we got him' as an American, but he can't celebrate anyone burning in hell. They draw the vengeance-vs-justice line — bin Laden deserved death and eternal damnation, and the only reason anyone escapes it is faith in Christ — and critique nationalism trumping God. The segment shifts to admiring the SEAL raid ('the military is the hero in this story') and a self-deprecating covert-operation fantasy ('I'm 80 pounds overweight and really slow').

Boone Bible plug, 1 Peter 3:19, and the 'Lenny' bit

The hosts plug Steve's ministry (Boone Bible / Boone Bible Ministries) and note they've been discussing whether it's okay to celebrate at the death of bin Laden. A theological aside follows: citing 1 Peter 3:19 (Christ proclaiming to the spirits) and the thief on the cross (Luke 23:43), they wonder whether bin Laden could have heard the gospel after death. They close the chapter inventing 'Lenny' — a proposed recurring bit of a guy in the corner with a light and a Bible who gets pied in the face for biblically inconsistent answers.

Tangents: gypsies, Engeldinger, the local music scene, Kirk Cameron, Facts of Life

A string of tangents: a host recounts getting in trouble the week before; a callback to a 45-minute gypsies discussion from an earlier episode and 'Dan's shirt came from a gypsy'; a check-in on musician Engeldinger; a plug for the local live-music scene (Jesse Anderson, Center of Fire, Jam and Java at Smokey Row) and a hope for a slot before or after Kirk Cameron of the Left Behind movies; and a comedy riff on The Facts of Life ('You tell them, Tootie').

Close: 'it's been heavy,' the Spickle Dinger gag, and rapture countdown jokes

The hosts close a heavy show: the 'Spickle Dinger' gag name for the absent Engeldinger, a joke that with only two shows left before the end they gave all their clothes away and are getting 'my eternal haircut,' and the usual contact info (info at livefromthepath.org, thepathonline.org) with a thank-you and sign-off.