Relationship Counseling

Show open: host intros, the thrift store priest, and the docket

Ben (speaker-0) opens from the Pathway Studios in Johnston Proper and introduces the mic'd hosts: himself ('My name is Ben Foost'), Mike Foost to his right, and Dan Hudson in front of him, plus the thrift-store priest who never flips a page. He sets two big topics for the night: is 'it's not a religion, it's a relationship' true and what does it mean, and is Jesus a good leader in the modern sense; then Dear LFTP advice to close. He opens the complaint line - 515-517-0085, call or text - 'in case we say something offensive, funny, or delightful.'

189 new episodes in your feed: the back catalog is filled

Ben apologizes to podcast subscribers and says 'you're welcome': he has backfilled the entire catalog, so listeners woke up to '189 new episodes' with no way to suppress the flood. He thought they were at episode 580 but this is 603; of the whole archive only two shows have no record - the second and the ninth they ever did. On podcast longevity: most people don't make it past a year or 30-40 episodes; 'sheer will and stupidity has kept this show a running.' The foreign bots beating on the feed make the hit counts look big - 'thank you, Pakistan.'

The HR complaint: 'I have not pulled in dollar one'

Ben tells the story, details withheld, of an HR complaint at work: investigators found the show and accused him of undeclared outside business activity as a pastor and podcaster. He laughed it off: he has pulled in 'dollar one' from neither activity; the house church doesn't even own an offering plate; the podcast costs him $500 a year out of pocket 'to the chagrin of my wife.' The donate button on the website has only ever been used by him, to test it. The merchandise store's entire sales history: 'Dan Hudson, a host on the show, ordered playing cards that never showed up' - it cost more to stand up the store hosting.

'Some of these shows are terrible': Fussy and Fuzzy and the uncool podcast

Back to the archives: Ben warns some of the old shows are 'legitimately terrible' - including a two-and-a-half-hour one he published just to stop thinking about it. He invites complaint-line verdicts ('boys, this one was particularly bad - I will go listen to it and weep with you'), though he's wary of finding where they 'misspoken about the Lord.' One recovered show debated why American English has the letter Z and was titled for 'fussy and fuzzy'; you and Boova (ASR 'Buva') spent 30 seconds making A-and-Z noises together, 'within the last five years.' The HR story's punchline: 'we started podcasting before podcasting was cool and just stayed uncool.'

'It's not a religion, it's a relationship': framing the big question

• Does God want a relationship with you - and if so, what do we actually mean by it?

Ben frames the night's first big question: the phrase 'it's not a religion, it's a relationship' is common, and evangelicals say 'God wants to be in relationship with you' - but is it true, and if so, what do we mean? The room goes around with biblical context: 'I am the vine, you are the branches' (John 15) as intimate closeness; the band that sang 'Jesus is a friend of mine'; bride and bridegroom; 'us as children, his children'; 'obedience equals love' - 'if you love me you will obey my commandments' (Gospel of John). One host is turned off by 'preacher talk' - which is ironic, given his life - and another notes the images (vine, bride, children, Israel) are all corporate: children, not child. David's 'you knit me in my mother's womb' (Psalm 139) gets raised as the genuinely personal counterpoint.

Ten things only my wife knows: knowing the shepherd's voice

Mike shares what he told his youth group last week: God wants to be in a love relationship with you - 'not a casual' one. He wrote down 10 things specific to him that only his wife would know, and had the kids guess - the point being that he and his wife are in an intimate relationship: 'she knows things about me, I know things about her.' Likewise, to know the shepherd's voice you have to know him well enough to distinguish him from other voices that 'sound the same' but didn't come from the Father. One host cites John 15:15 - 'I no longer call you servants... Instead, I've called you friends' - as closeness, 'but it's not like buddy, buddy': everybody got John 15, not just Boova.

What work does the phrase do? Don't worship the structure

Ben asks 'what work is that phrase doing?' The answer: it channels people away from being drawn into a religious system - 'your connection is with God himself, like the Godhead. It's not with this religious structure... You do not have a connection with the structure.' To imitate what the Father is doing you must be close enough to see what he's doing - otherwise you build 'religious buckets' of always-do deeds (indiscriminately feed the poor), but 'the Father doesn't always feed the poor': 'you're gonna have poor always, so right now that perfume is going here.' Ben's dog Bosco becomes the illustration: Bosco trots about his business, and when Ben calls 'Bosco, come' he tears in - go about what God set you to, and when the shepherd says turn left, you turn. The caution: don't wander so far you can't hear him, and don't chase 'every two seconds, anything now?'

Feelings as validation: the gushy-feeling risk

The relationship with God is 'a sacrificial close relationship - that's love,' but without 'all the time guaranteed gushy feelings.' One host was convicted by the question 'are you absolutely convinced that God loves you' - he mostly operates on 'I will do all things because God is God,' since feelings are fleeting and can be 'indigestion or... manipulated.' Worship tingles are awesome and should be celebrated; the risk is giving the not-happening the same weight - 'oh well God has left me.' Feeling distant from God may just mean the Spirit is saying 'you've wandered too far,' but it doesn't change identity: 'he died on the cross - what else do you need?' We do it with spouses too: 'she's not doing what I want... and she's over there going, I don't know, I was doing the dishes.'

Prodigal, lost sheep, and John 3:16: love from strength

The prodigal son gives the individual relationship image - 'obedience also goes with runs to hug' - and the lost sheep shows God cares about individual strays. In the you-and-God equation 'it's only you that can screw it up,' yet God holds the covenant together on Israel's behalf 'maybe 15 times' in the Old Testament. John 3:16's highlight: 'God so loved those who don't love him that he gave his only begotten son' - love agnostic of acceptance, before you agreed to the rescue. The closest earthly picture of that strength-position love: parents of special-needs kids who may never say thank you or I love you back - 'what a picture of... God goes, I will love you unconditionally.' And when you accept, 'all of heaven celebrates' - they're not irritated: 'finally, Dan figured it out.'

Landing it: love, not vulnerability; beware quippy phrases

The rounding thought: 'I think that God does want to be in a love relationship with you... I said it and it irked a bunch of people and I think it's right' - with two cautions: external emotional manipulation to control people 'in the name of Jesus,' and internal adjudication of 'is this what love feels like?' when you feel crappy. 'There's not a day that existed or that will ever exist where God does not love you.' He died for you, did everything - but 'he's not like sitting at the edge of his seat... He's not vulnerable towards you... He's still God. He's still sovereign... I want more than anything for you to come and be part of the kingdom. You get to not be. What a wild love.' Final word: the easier the phrase, the riskier - 'even the Bible did not propose to go, here's a series of quippy phrases that will guide your whole life.'

The questions game: Beelzebub, Jesus's outfit, heaven karaoke, lateral moves

Ben brought questions from a party game. First: you and Jesus start a podcast - who do you invite as first guest? Ben's first thought popped out: 'Beelzebub' ('Wouldn't you want to hear Jesus ask the questions?'); Dan went with 'a Hitler' ('Dan and I want shows that bring antagonism'); Mike 'did the right thing' and invited someone who really needs to know Jesus - 'good luck looking him in the eyes and walking out of here unchanged.' Second: Jesus shows up at your church next Sunday - what is he wearing? Answers range from the Revelation Jesus (blinding white robe, horse with blood stain) to blending in (jeans and a t-shirt) to 'huggable clothing' to 'whatever it is you need him to be wearing.' Third: heaven karaoke - 'Don't Stop Believing,' 'Holy Holy Holy' ('we need new hits'), and a Fanny-vs-Franny Crosby tangent. Then a non-Jesus question: moving things side to side is a lateral move - what's the up-and-down partner? Vertical and horizontal 'both snuggle up with vertical. It's a throuple... a grammatical throuple.'

Dan Hudson's books: The Pursuit of Wisdom and The Adventures of Bucko

Dan has just published The Pursuit of Wisdom: A Study from the Book of Proverbs - in e-book now, trade paperback 'soon, like within the next week or two' (October 20th), tagline 'Wisdom Calls Out in the Street.' Rather than chapter-by-chapter he took 10 topics (work ethic, relationships) and pulled wisdom from each chapter - every topic is the path of foolishness or the path of wisdom. He 'often fail[s] in our Solomon versus secular,' so the study was self-improvement. His last book was 1999 or 2000 (life and planting the church got busy); earlier ones were newspaper-column stories and a Ten Commandments sermon-series book. Old copies of Hope from the Heartland go for '$400' used - 'I have a case in my garage. I'll sell you cheap.' There's also a new children's book, The Adventures of Bucko: the never-told origin story of the truck driver Bucko, whose every story had him telling people about Jesus - 'who told him about Jesus?' Ben's pitch: in an AI world, curation gets more valuable, not less - 'Dan's experience and faithfulness to Jesus... how I would collect it.' Free on Kindle Unlimited.

Is Jesus a good leader? The 10 qualities, part one

• Is Jesus a good leader by modern standards?

Mike runs a vague internet search for 'the 10 essential qualities of an effective leader' and the room grades Jesus. 1. Clear communication: 'yes, but no' - Jesus in John is 'very confusing' on purpose ('I have food you don't know anything about'; 'I'm the living water'); even the disciples didn't get it until after the resurrection. 2. Integrity: a win - 'Good job, Jesus.' 3. Self-awareness: yes - anger with a reason, weeping, lament; he 'never doubted who he was' and defers to the Father: 'me and my father agree, so now it's two against everybody.' 4. Empathy: he cares more than anyone - but he's not a coddler: 'Get behind me, Satan'; 'let the dead bury the dead'; telling Peter 'you're going to be led to somewhere you don't want to go' without softening it. 5. Accountability: 'owns mistakes and takes responsibility' - 'Takes responsibility for outcomes, for sure. Never had a mistake.'

The 10 qualities, part two: adaptability, empowerment, vision, decisiveness, learning

6. Adaptability: 'I will submit Jesus did none of these things' - crowds try to kill him and he walks out; they try to make him king and he eludes them; but adaptability implies being forced by circumstance, 'where Jesus, his plan was always to escape that way... they adapt to him.' 7. Empowerment: he sends people out, gives them gifts, 'act like you're me' - and sends a helper: 'I will send you a helper.' 'You put into the hands of humans the responsibility to otherwise accurately reflect you to the world. That seems like a real wild card.' 8. Vision: clear to him, cloudy for the team - 'he is vague enough that people will think what they want to think.' 9. Decisiveness: 100% - Lazarus is dying and Jesus goes 'nah, I can't make it right now,' then 'now we should go' ('Thomas is like, don't worry, we'll die, too'). 10. Continuous learning: 'No. He's real bad at that.' Verdict: 'an average leader... about 50, 50 or so' - '60, 70 percent' - by human standards. 'Jesus, you have not finished your continuing education courses. I'm going to get a Bill Hybels class.' And: 'I can't believe Brood of Vipers is harassment. I just called it what it was.'

Leadership training for church leaders: get a business manager

• Do people who lead churches need leadership training?

Mike's real question: to what extent do people need leadership training to lead churches? Ben gives two distinct answers. One: following Jesus closely 'should be sufficient to lead and guide the church.' Two: once you're leading an organization, it's 'not quite the same things anymore' - seminary teaches following Jesus and teaching, not how to lead an organization, and 'to the extent that you're going to do them, you probably should learn how to do it well,' because an infrastructure that doesn't reflect Jesus is a problem. 'You can't just look at his life and go like lessons for the boardroom from Jesus. He did not go into the boardroom.' Bible colleges shifted from theologically heavy to pure-CEO leadership training, producing megachurches that are 'not theologically rich.' His preference: training that builds a lifelong ability to 'wrestle with scripture' - and if you're running a big machine, 'get a business manager... allow people that are teaching to teach.' Current pulpit fashion: preachers standing on 30-foot ladders mid-sermon, like the roller coasters a few years back.

Dear LFTP: the grandma, 'Libby,' and the weight comment

• Was I wrong to mention my concern about Libby's weight?

Mike reads the letter: she moved 2,000 miles to be near her daughter's family; granddaughter 'Libby' was diagnosed with a medical condition and put on weight. At her daughter's she started to mention concern about Libby's weight; her son-in-law cut her off, said she shouldn't talk about it, and walked away. Later he came to her house: filter what you say; you've made remarks that hurt the grandchildren. She apologized by text; her daughter never came to talk. 'Was I wrong? Am I wrong?' The hosts: the letter is missing key bits - tone, history, what else she's said. Maybe the parents are hypersensitive or guilty about parenting; maybe grandma 'just feels like she has to say the things all the time.' It lands as judgment: 'you show up what once every three months and then all of a sudden you're like, man that kid put on some weight.' But asking 'I noticed this - is something going on?' isn't inherently offensive if you're close; closeness is the key variable - 'just because you care about somebody... they don't know nothing about you.' The son-in-law showing up instead of the daughter signals 'a broken relationship problem': 'we always had a blood talks the blood rule - I'll talk to my parents, you talk to your parents.' The Secular answer: disappointing that the son-in-law came rather than the daughter; weight is a sensitive subject, especially with a medical condition - trust the doctor's care; 'it may be time to close your mouth and turn on your listening ears'; private conversations with your daughter must actually be private.

Dear LFTP: Ralph calls three or four times a week

• How can I get my retired friend Ralph to call less frequently without being rude?

The letter: 'Ralph,' a longtime best friend, retired and is bored, so he calls three or four times a week 'even when there's nothing new to talk about,' rehashing the same things; subtle hints haven't worked; letting it go to voicemail just earns a callback request. 'How can I get him to call less frequently?' Dan: if you're truly friends, be forthright - 'let's schedule time, once a week or something.' Ben: if you're close enough, say 'Ralph, you seem lonely, my man' - he told you the same story three of four calls - and encourage him to find more people: 'you cannot... one person can't carry the burden of... loneliness.' Branch out: senior center, church, bingo hall. 'You will end up with what you will tolerate' - if Ralph's urgency becomes your urgency by always calling back, he'll expect it; renegotiate the terms, and if it continues, 'just don't call him back... you have that power.' Set him up for success, not failure, or the friendship breaks. The Secular answer: no obligation to call back a voicemail with no reason urgently; when he brings up a worn-out topic, 'we talked about this a few days ago,' then change the subject. Final diagnosis: 'either Ralph you need more friends or you need more stories.'

Close: book plugs, benediction, and the Amos song

The close: pick up The Adventures of Bucko and The Pursuit of Wisdom by Dan Hudson, leave a positive Amazon review ('if you don't like it, just go ahead and not say anything'), and send feedback on the Bob Eisenlauer complaint line, 515-517-0085, call or text. The benediction: 'in the meantime be faithful in the means, God will handle the ends.' The episode ends with an original closing song built on Amos: 'the shepherd from Tekoa, no crown no gold, just a staff and a vision that the heavens foretold' - locusts, fire, the plumb line, 'justice rolls down,' ivory towers and gilded thrones, 'the lion don't whisper, it tears through the air; the Lord won't relent till justice is fair.'