First Death, Then Resurrection

Show open: Rhett Walker Band chat and failed ideas

The show opens from the Pathway Studios with banter about the Rhett Walker Band's back catalog -- 'Come to the River' and 'When Mercy Found Me' -- and the distinction between Rhett Walker and the Rhett Walker Band. The hosts reminisce about failed show ideas: the all-musical-guests choir that only Silversyde ever did, a Monopoly board, and a phone app that would warn 'do not trust this man.' One host recalls interviewing Rhett Walker and Tim Timmons in Earlham, and the room debates whether they ever interviewed Building 429.

Docket: Tim Keller's 'Can Christianity grow again?' and the death-to-resurrection line

• Can Christianity grow again in the United States?

One host lays out the night's plan -- a single Tim Keller article and some advice -- and addresses Mike by name to ask what struck him about the piece. Mike answers with the line that hooked him, from Keller's 2023 Atlantic essay 'Can Christianity grow again?': 'Christianity, much like its founder, has to die before it can get reborn.' The other host notes Keller died within the last few years and the show commits to a shorty under an hour.

One host's Ark of the Covenant reflection

One host (speaker-1), addressed on air as Boova and asked whether he had anything, shares a reflection on the Ark of the Covenant: the jar of manna, the tablets, and Aaron's budded staff inside the ark all represent human rebellion and brokenness. He marvels that God put a mercy seat on top of those symbols of failure, with blood spilled on the atonement cover once a year, and that God said His presence sat between the wings of the cherubim -- a picture of Christ's blood covering human failure from the fall onward. The other host calls it a rant and blames Raiders of the Lost Ark for warping everyone's picture of the ark.

Rituals as aids to faith: the crime-scene metaphor and Catholic roots

Picking up the ark thread, the hosts discuss the value of physical rituals and symbols: the consecration instructions read like a crime scene where every contaminated layer has to be handled, because of how holy God is versus how fallen people are. One host admits aging has softened his Protestant dismissal of Catholic practices, noting they often grew from deep, meaningful roots before drifting strange over the centuries, and recalls trying to build a scripturally accurate ark replica for a prayer room. They close with the caution not to worship the practice itself -- people who worshiped the show missed Jesus -- while appreciating the richness such patterns can carry.

Keller point 1: the church must learn to speak to outsiders

The hosts work through Keller's first point: for a millennium Western institutions instilled Christian beliefs so the church didn't have to explain itself, but now most evangelical churches can only reach shrinking enclaves because they haven't learned to communicate to outsiders. They discuss how calls to repentance require a shared view of reality, how one host translates Deuteronomy into 'Mike speak' with American town names to follow the story, and how every sermon is essentially translating the text into relatable situations. They read Keller's account of reaching young secular progressives in Manhattan by affirming their best longings and redirecting them to Christ, after Paul's pattern in 1 Corinthians 1:22-24, and one host recommends Tim Mackie's Jonah sermons to a friend reconnecting with faith.

Keller point 2: uniting justice and righteousness

Keller's second point: the American church must unite justice and righteousness the way the historic Black church has -- holding to biblical authority, morality, and the new birth while taking an activist stance against oppression. One host vents about performative college-campus protesting and Christians doing showy things that don't matter, arguing that jettisoning core beliefs turns 'justice' into whatever banner you're upset about while evangelicals stress righteousness but stay indifferent to injustice. They agree that combining both rebuilds credibility and rebuts the charge that the church is merely another political power broker.

The trickle-charger story: a confidence problem or an arrogance problem?

A guilt story launches the humility thread: one host (speaker-0) confesses he watched a man trickle-charging his car battery at a gas station, thought about offering a jump, and drove off -- then asks why it's easier to imagine taking a bullet for Jesus than doing the small thing right in front of you. Another host (speaker-1) contrasts this with running toward a drive-by shooting three years earlier to apply a tourniquet, versus dodging a grocery-store conversation days ago because it felt uncomfortable. The room lands on a hard word: avoiding a good deed because you fear how you'll look isn't a confidence problem, it's an arrogance problem -- and that word hits doubly hard on people with low self-image.

Keller point 3: embracing the global, multiethnic character of Christianity

Keller's third point: immigration from the world's more religious regions may stall American secularization by 2050, and the church must welcome immigrant congregations into real leadership rather than paternalistic tokenism. One host (speaker-0) asks Dan by name whether the multiethnic point lands for his church; Dan (speaker-2) describes multiple ethnic groups already leading ministries, and shares the story of a Congolese woman separated from her husband by refugee resettlement whose unknown twin was discovered through social media decades later. The hosts argue diverse perspectives enrich Scripture reading -- Eastern Bloc commentaries on Revelation don't apologize for God's judgment because they've lived under oppression -- and warn against only seeking counsel from people prone to agree with you.

Keller point 4: innovation and conservation; from death to resurrection

• Would you let God kill your church if that is what it took to do what He wanted?

Keller's fourth point: the church must conserve historic teaching while embracing innovation, illustrated by monasticism, the Reformation, revivals, and the East African revival -- 'there was no such thing until there was.' Mike (addressed by name) explains what grabbed him: the Western church only accepts a strength-to-strength trajectory, posturing success with new buildings, campuses, and LED walls rather than accepting death as the path to resurrection -- 'if God had to kill your church to do what he wanted to do, would you allow it?' Another host (speaker-2) adds that these movements were works of the Holy Spirit, not church-growth science, and the hosts debate organization: the early church organized around needs without using structure as control, which is where modern churches strangle the Spirit's leading.

Keller point 5: Charles Taylor's 'unquiet frontiers of modernity'

Keller's fifth point, via Catholic philosopher Charles Taylor: secularism claims people are only physical entities, yet most people feel life is greater than naturalistic explanations -- and the demand to create one's own identity has produced unprecedented anxiety and depression. The hosts riff on how hard it is to help someone whose struggle lives entirely inside their own mind: even a correct rebuke of arrogance can double the weight on someone already self-conscious, and 'truth bomb, suck it up, I'm out' does real harm. One host (speaker-2) answers with Moses, who embraced his inadequacy and got need-to-know leadership, and they recall David emotionally spilling in the Psalms, Moses breaking the tablets and striking the rock, and The Chosen's scene of Moses building the bronze serpent on command.

Keller's three requirements for renewal and article wrap

The hosts skim Keller's three requirements for actual renewal: escape political captivity, a union of extraordinary prayer like Korea's all-night prayer meetings, and distinguishing the gospel from moralism -- illustrated by the Eric Liddell story behind Chariots of Fire. They joke about the show running long despite promising a shorty, and close the article discussion with the title: 'American Christianity Is Due for a Revival.'

Dear LFTP: Sarah of Illinois on finding a lasting husband

• I am divorced and in my forties and still want a husband -- should I try online dating or reach out to another state?

A Dear LFTP letter from Sarah in Illinois: divorced, in her forties, still wanting a man in her life, alarmed that the men she meets prefer living alone, and asking whether to try online dating or look in another state -- while admitting she's 'waiting for a divorce to happen.' The hosts push back: multiple husbands leaving suggests a personal-responsibility question, 'waiting for a divorce' means starting with a man who can't stay married, and she may be treating a husband like an accessory -- 'I just want a dude,' 'kinda like you'd like a new pair of AirPods.' Their counsel: do things you personally enjoy, get into a good church where people are merciful about your past, and become someone who builds a man up rather than takes from the relationship.

Secular answer: stop waiting for divorces, try local mature-adult dating sites

The Secular answer to Sarah's letter: stop waiting for divorces -- burned men make poor near-term marriage candidates -- and since an increasing share of matches are made online, write a profile on a couple of dating sites for mature adults, preferably ones who live relatively close by. One host jokes she shouldn't poison the well of a whole new state, and another notes she's already 'ruined Ohio.'

Hosts swap online-dating experiences: Plenty of Fish, Tinder, Christian Mingle

The hosts trade online-dating war stories: Boova (speaker-1), asked on air whether he tried it as a single man, describes years of catfishing, being used to buy alcohol for a 19-year-old, and the asymmetry of men reaching out to silence. Another host's friend accidentally received a stranger's shirtless photo -- 'that's Phil; every guy does that' -- and they riff on Tinder swipe-right mechanics, Plenty of Fish's single-mom-and-CNA demographics, FarmersOnly being mostly not farmers, and Christian Mingle predators who talk Jesus in their profile and send explicit photos within twenty minutes. They end by inviting listener dating stories on the Bob Eisenlauer complaint line.

Comedy close: monk-for-life, the grief train, and the complaint line

Comedy close: one host (speaker-2) says if his wife passes first he's becoming a monk, another vows to abandon self-improvement entirely -- all the soda he wants, no more exercise -- and jokes about riding the grief train for sympathy lasagna and donuts. They plug the Bob Eisenlauer complaint line, sign off with 'be faithful in the means; God will handle the ends,' and the episode ends with someone calling out, 'That was a terrible noise, Mike.'