What Christians Do in a Divided Country

Show open: fine wine and no big plans for 2021

A host opens with a 'fine wine' joke and lays out the year's plan: 'not a dang flipping thing.' The hosts embrace consistency over reinvention, with one host comparing the show to a Werther's Original of internet radio — unchanged after years away, still the same, and maybe just what a listener needs at a given time.

Off politics: what do the people of Jesus need to do?

• What do the people of the Lord Jesus need to do, apart from the political surroundings?

A host recounts teasing Ben about being 'heavily into politics' after Ben pledged to stay off the news and sent a politics article seven hours later. Both the absent Dan Hudson (it's his birthday) and the hosts confess they failed their own no-politics resolution. One host poses the episode's framing question: setting the political surroundings aside, what do the people of the Lord Jesus need to do?

Jon Wagner: Romans 1 and the purpose of giving God glory

Jon Wagner, a pastor who came into church life through music, shares what struck him reading Romans 1-3 in the parking lot before the show: God gave people over to depravities because they stopped worshiping and honoring him. He argues the primary purpose of a believer is to give God glory, and that praise — not argument — should be the first response to political and cultural chaos.

Freedom as something to lay down for the King

The hosts discuss what freedom is for: a congregation submitting to Scripture and the Holy Spirit is not trying to weasel out freedoms, they argue. One host poses the challenge — if God asked you to lay down your freedom to speak about 'America's business,' would you do it for his glory and your joy? They plead with pastors to stop preaching on 'the tone of the country' instead of the gospel.

Worship first: Israel as a nation of priests

One host argues that 'conservative' Christian discourse often elevates its own opinion over humble submission to Jesus, and that Romans 1 must come before Romans 2-9 — you can't speak to social issues without humble worship first. Israel is presented as elected to be a nation of priests who blew their mission chasing national identity, mirroring the Western church today.

Quiet servants, church abuse, and the underpants man

• When is it our responsibility to rebuke foolish or false figures in the church?

The hosts note that the loudest Christians take all the bandwidth while humble servants go unheard, then recall a prior conversation about abuse 'rampant within God's church.' They revisit the 'underpants man' — a false teacher who printed his face on underpants — and debate Philippians 1: whether to tolerate him because 'Christ is being preached,' or whether it is ever the church's responsibility to shut such figures down.

Blending Wagner's worship-first approach with rebuke

A host asks Mike how to blend Wagner's humble-worship posture with the reality that the church sometimes needs rebuke — citing John the Baptist and Jesus confronting the Pharisees. The answer: submit to God and pray first; if he calls you to knock heads, go — but if the plan is your own idea without asking him, 'you're not the right guy.' Division in Christianity is traced to a lack of humble submission to King Jesus.

They don't have a king: kingship in Western culture

Wagner reflects on American resistance to kingship — 'our culture exists because we gave the finger to a king' — leaving believers with no reference for 'one king.' He confesses his own habit of treating God as one authority among layers, asking for 'a little bit of power' to do good work, when submission to one King means having none. The hosts agree the church struggles with what freedom is and what it is for.

The words of Jesus without the heart of Jesus

One host coins the line 'words of Jesus without the heart of Jesus' miss the truth of Jesus, and says he doesn't care about Ten Commandments tablets on the State House lawn. Wagner pivots to pastors' fear: leaders are afraid that 'Jesus is your King' isn't enough for people, and the church has become 'a church for every issue' — environment, human sexuality, immigration — while he is 'desperate to be a part of a church that is about Jesus.'

The answer is Jesus: youth group and the hard issues

A host who leads a youth group says teens have zero reference for God as father or king, then argues the heavy issues want to feel complicated but aren't: the answer to the whitewashing of the Protestant church, immigration, and human sexuality is Jesus — God spoke to these things and loves people more than anyone. Walking it out in a fallen world is the tough part, but the answer stays simple.

'Old King Mike' and three months of unceasing prayer

A host tells how his life 'fell on its face' three months earlier, and he spent the next three months praying unceasingly — every prayer starting 'dear Father God, I can't do this without you' — seeing more fruit than in 37.5 years prior. He describes sensing 'old King Mike rolling back in' and shutting him out. The hosts reframe the true mountaintop experience as God's call to humility and repentance, and the host shares praying for 10-15 people daily, asking God to 'drop a rock' on them — disrupting their lives toward humility.

Jesus bailed on personal problems; take it to King Jesus

The hosts argue Jesus 'always bailed' on personal problems like the inheritance dispute and pointed people to higher principles — so a reasonable reply to any issue-of-the-day is, 'I hear that burdens your heart. Let me take it to King Jesus with you.' They discuss taking the Lord's name in vain as using Yahweh's name for one's own glory rather than merely swearing, and warn that words of Jesus separated from the heart of Jesus don't create the ends of Jesus.

The church's unique offer and hot-button idols

One host argues community can be found at the bar, but the church's one unique offering is Christ crucified — 'the only thing we have to offer that has nothing else like it.' The hosts mock social-media outrage culture ('hey Ted, I think you're wrong and your sources are bogus') and say hot-button issues become idols: 'Jesus isn't the most important thing' is why we won't take them to him. Wagner concludes that if the answer isn't 'Jesus is King,' you're asking the wrong question.

Advice premised on Jesus is King; gospel transformation

One host explains his advice is premised on Jesus being King and his word being good and true — without that shared premise he can't help, illustrated with marriage counseling ('I can help you with a relationship with Jesus Christ which is actually going to help your marriage problem'). Both political sides, he argues, chase Jesus-shaped ends (justice, mercy) through non-Jesus means — behavior modification by force — when only gospel transformation works.

Repentance as a gift and the tangibility of sin

A host tells how his oldest daughter confessed a lie she couldn't shake, and he framed the Holy Spirit's burden as a gift of repentance — 'he didn't create you to live' in guilt, but gave the mechanism to turn from it. Another host connects this to the Leviticus sin offering: the worshiper laid his hand on the animal and slaughtered it himself, a tangible reminder of sin's cost — and he suggests revisiting the Passion of the Christ yearly for the same reason.

On-air prayer of humility

A host invites the room to pray on the episode's theme — not a round robin, just open prayer. He prays for humble submission to God over human-level issues, asking that the Lord bring daily humility, open hearts to see people rightly before speaking, and remind them they want gospel transformation rather than shallow change 'reversed every four years.' Wagner adds his amen.

Code word for Nathaniel and the discussion recap

After the prayer, a host jokes with Nathaniel about jumping in 'Billy Sunday' style, establishing the code word 'Santa's got a brand new bag' to signal the Spirit has come upon him. The hosts agree they prefer this discussion to the political ones, and Mike's 'Pope style' bit is confirmed as covered before moving to the advice letters.

Dear LFTP: boyfriend's parents keep walking in

• My boyfriend's parents pop in uninvited, even into our bedroom — how do I make it stop?
• Should the show keep doing Dear LFTP after concluding it's just 'bloviating'?

A listener living with her boyfriend writes that his parents bought a house a few doors down and pop in uninvited, even walking into the bedroom. The hosts advise: stop living together; it's the boyfriend's problem — 'he's not marriage material' if he hasn't set boundaries; and loving people can include asking them to stay in their lane. The Secular answer ('buy a lock,' 'change the locks,' hire a professional mediator) is read and mocked as poor advice, spawning a joke about a $25 professional-mediator gig.

Dear LFTP: mother favors the brother

• My mother favors my brother and won't visit to meet my fiancee — what can I do?

A listener is hurting because her mother favors her brother, refuses to visit or meet her fiancee, and says it hurts when confronted. The hosts advise that she should make the drive herself if the relationship matters — 'if it is important to you, then do the thing that's important to you' — and warn that some people's love language is 'joining them in misery.' The discussion detours into a Rand Paul tangent ('Randall, not Randy') and a comedy riff on whether Genesis's 'thigh' should be translated 'testicles,' before the Secular answer (make the long drive, bring the fiancee) is read.

Outro: complaint line and review plea

The hosts close with the Bob Eisenlauer complaint line — (515) 517-0085, clarifying it is not Bob's actual real-estate number — ask for honest podcast reviews ('a five star review if you're so inclined or a one'), joke that 'Tim Keller never said testicle,' and sign off with 'be faithful to the means; God will handle the ends.'