2016 Episode 28

Show open and audio mishap

The hosts open with the show intro and stumble through an audio problem — one host couldn't hear himself — joking about the 'opening debacle' before settling in. A host cues the night's framing question about discipleship.

What counts as discipleship?

• What actually counts as discipleship, and what is just church activity we've relabeled as discipleship?

A host raises the episode's framing question: which of his biblical passions should be considered normative, and which of the things churches file under 'discipleship' — fellowship with a casserole, programs — are actually making disciples versus just 'doing church stuff.' Another host pushes back gently, noting things that seemed cheesy to him have borne fruit.

Introducing Brett and Nicole Ricely

• Why Salt Lake City — what makes it a mission field?

A host introduces the in-studio guests, Brett and Nicole Ricely, who have a missionary background and are doing church-planting work in Salt Lake City. He tees up their story: why Salt Lake City is a mission field, and how it is not so different from the lives the listeners are living.

Brett's road to Salt Lake City

Brett gives his background: born in McCook, Nebraska, Bible college at Nebraska Christian College, full-time ministry in Omaha, then mission trips to Salt Lake City after it appeared on his college's mission-trip list. Three summers of trips burdened them; they concluded Utah — under 3% evangelical — is an unreached people group and moved from campus ministry into church planting.

Salt Lake City: religious and secular at once

Brett describes Utah's landscape: about 70% LDS, ~28% atheist/agnostic/'nones', under 3% evangelical Christian; downtown Salt Lake City is urbanized and highly secular, so evangelical Christians face confusion on both sides — Mormons who think of themselves as Christian, and secular people who assume 'Christian' means Mormon. A host observes that SLC's honesty about its religious friction is an advantage over places that hide it.

Fear of the conversation; ashamed of the gospel

• What tips can you give people who are afraid to start faith conversations?

A host admits he is 'scared to death' of starting faith conversations and asks Brett for tips for people who are bad at it. Brett answers candidly: two years earlier he was equally fearful, and his conviction came from Romans 1:16 — realizing he was ashamed of the gospel because he cared more about being liked than about God. Mentoring from Redeeming Life Church lead pastor Brian Katherman, who modeled bold ordinary-life witness, stretched him out of hiding.

The harvest is plentiful; the laborers are few

Brett cites Luke 10:2 and John's 'fields ripe for harvest' to argue the problem is not that people won't hear the gospel but that too few Christians are willing to open their mouths. The hosts agree: disengagement reflects not believing the gospel actually has power to transform lives.

Love God first: overflow, not programming

Brett walks through his church's tagline — 'love God, love people, make disciples, multiply churches' — rooted in the two great commandments (Matthew 22) and John 15:5: without abiding in Christ there is no overflow to love people. A host agrees this is why churches end up with 'more religion than Jesus': programs and service projects try to produce by hand what must flow from loving God first.

Don't box in the Holy Spirit

The hosts argue that programmed church activity 'takes all the crazy out of the Holy Spirit': when ministries are reduced to bite-sized, presentable boxes — homeless feeds, house repairs, Kenya trips — believers lose the mystery of a God who walked the earth, died, and rose. A living faith that expects the unbelievable is what the New Testament interactions with Jesus turn on.

Equip the saints; no cookie-cutter Christianity

Brett: his job as a pastor is Ephesians 4 — to equip saints for the work of ministry however the Spirit leads them, not to tell people what to do. A host agrees Christianity is not a cookie-cutter function: Paul's model was 'follow me as I follow Christ,' one-on-one, and believers keep outsourcing their daily walk to a broad church identity.

Transformation, not behavior modification

• How do Christians who don't know their Bibles bridge the gap of speaking the gospel to real brokenness?

The hosts contend the Christian life must be compelling to lost people — transformation from intimacy with Jesus, not modified behavior. They work the 'Steve' bit: judging a church member's pornography use as a rule problem instead of the real issue, that he is not walking close to Jesus. Every sin issue has the same answer: the gospel.

Biblical illiteracy and the gospel for brokenness

A host asks how Christians who can't articulate the gospel bridge that gap. Brett's answer: 'we don't know our Bibles' — justification, adoption, redemption aren't internalized, so believers offer church invitations instead of God's word for people's brokenness. He recommends the 'Three Circles' life-conversation guide (God's design, brokenness, gospel) as a simple tool.

Street ministry on North Temple

• Is the North Temple street work part of the church outreach, or part of a missionary campaign?

A host asks whether the street work is church outreach or a missionary campaign. Brett explains the church plants on Salt Lake City's West Side and walks North Temple — past the I-15 divide into open prostitution, drugs, and homelessness — handing out gospel tracts, praying with people by name on the spot, and inviting them to the church two blocks away. He tells of a man just diagnosed with kidney cancer and says the tract is an invitation and opportunity, not the gospel itself.

Tracts, darkness, and ordinary opportunities

• Is it sinful to make fun of gospel tracts?

In-studio guest Todd says you can feel a spiritual darkness in the Salt Lake valley, which is why a tract may land there differently than in Des Moines — and the hosts must find their own equivalents, like offering to pray for a waitress. The hosts concede their long-running mockery of gospel tracts: the failure was the fly-by-night drop, not the method, and God works through whatever means He pleases. A host jokes about being sinful for mocking tracts.

Prayer is the first layer; support the Ricelys

Brett: anyone can help the work — the first layer of evangelism is prayer, from a prayer journal of hundreds of lost people to praying over people by name on the street. He also coaches normalcy: tell coworkers you went to church; don't be weird about it. A host plugs Brett's site displaythegospel.com and email brett@redeeminglifeutah.org, with banter about owning a displaythegospel.com address.

Dear LFTP: the baseball-cap boyfriend

• Should she ignore the baseball-cap quirk in her otherwise great dating relationship?

Dear LFTP letter: an older woman dating a nice man for seven months can't get past his always-on baseball cap, even with dress suits. The hosts split — one says take the hat off, another says the relationship is doomed — and land on honesty: tell him it's a real hang-up so he knows what he's getting into. Secular's advice: maybe he's bald or self-conscious; consider whether his attire reflects only on himself.

Dear LFTP: the armed guard's joke

• Is there a polite way to discourage the 'wouldn't it be funny if you got robbed' joke, or should the armed guard just grin and bear it?

Dear LFTP letter: an armed guard is tired of the facetious 'wouldn't it be funny if you got robbed?' He asks for a polite deflection or whether to grin and bear it. The hosts: just answer honestly — 'no, it wouldn't be funny' — and have grace; people fumble for something to say. Secular's advice: keep a straight face and say it wouldn't be funny if someone got hurt.

Grace for wrong people; sign-off

A host turns the armed-guard letter into a closing point: Christians demand grace for people they agree with but none for people they dislike — the right move is praying for the wrong person, since you treat people differently once you pray for them. The show signs off thanking Brett and Nicole, with the motto 'be faithful in the means; God will handle the ends.'