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No. 267 Season 2016 · Episode 5 · Recorded February 1, 2016

2016 Episode 5

15 conversations 1:16:53 With Dave Herrick

In this episode

  1. 0:00 1 min

    Show open: special caucus edition

    The show opens from the Pathway Studios in Johnston proper as a special caucus-night edition, broadcasting from the 'Live From The Path Caucus headquarters' in Gilbert. The host frames the night as wall-to-wall caucus coverage and jokes that their political analysis will not help anyone in life.

  2. 0:55 3 min

    Why the hosts skipped caucusing; the media's Bernie blind spot

    • Why didn't any of the hosts caucus?

    A host explains he did not caucus because he is not registered with either party and will not feign affiliation just to be part of the process; Mike is addressed by name on-air during the exchange. The conversation turns to media coverage: a Wall Street Journal analysis giving 95% of Democratic coverage to Hillary Clinton versus 5% to Bernie Sanders, reported on NPR, and Sarah Palin's Trump endorsement generating huge coverage but no movement in Trump's numbers. Running gags: 'my man Byrne' for Bernie Sanders, and renaming the party 'Republican Foust' after the addressee's last name.

  3. 4:04 7 min

    Caucus counting chaos and the death of live news

    The hosts recount watching caucus coverage: a middle-school site where 750 people produced 900 votes and had to restart the count multiple times, and the Democratic hand-raising count done as 'seas of hands.' They riff on live news dissecting events seconds after they happen — a reporter re-explaining what a man just said, 'worse' — and argue news outlets no longer control information: 'I could write the news on my butt and put it on YouTube.' Mike, addressed by name on-air, is asked what could change news; the answer given is that the internet is faster and does no checks.

  4. 10:47 5 min

    Community, caucus mechanics, and tonight's agenda

    • What is the missional movement, and why will it fail?

    Facebook photos of handwritten caucus-result whiteboards spark a reflection on community versus being a mere conduit for events. The hosts compare caucus mechanics — the Democratic viability realignment versus the Republican paper vote — and joke about the stubborn non-mover and O'Malley's rough night. Dan is named on-air as absent; the hosts say they miss Dan and his caucus adventure. Dave Herrick is named on-air as the submitter of one of tonight's two articles: Mike Breen's 'Why the Missional Movement Will Fail' and a Michael Murray piece on not wanting to be a 'Christian writer.'

  5. 15:53 4 min

    Breen's thesis: the missional church is a car without an engine

    • What is the missional movement, and why will it fail?

    The hosts read through Mike Breen's article 'Why the Missional Movement Will Fail': a missional church without discipleship is 'a car without an engine'; 'if you make disciples, you always get the church'; a 30-day Twitter study found 100-150x more talk of mission than discipleship — people 'addicted to and obsessed with the work of the kingdom with little to no idea how to be with the king.' Breen cites Skye Jethani's Out of Ur post (rendered 'Sky Gethany' in the transcript) on leaders replacing 'the transcendent vitality of a life with God for the ego satisfaction they derive from a life for God.' The hosts push back on classifying church things as 'movements' at all.

  6. 20:07 8 min

    Discussion: who is Breen actually talking about?

    The hosts wrestle with what the 'missional movement' even is — one assumed it meant loading planes of missionaries — and who Breen is targeting: churches satisfied with feeding the poor as the whole mission. A host applies it to youth ministry: setting up activities so kids look like the hands and feet of Jesus without knowing God. They agree the goal is people knowing Christ, not just full grain bags for Somalia, and that you cannot send people to disciple others when no one taught them how.

  7. 27:41 8 min

    Posturing, Greenpeace, and the Jesus movement

    The conversation turns to identity: 'if our identity is in God, we are God's people' going about the business, not a checklist. Sending people on mission without discipleship is 'like joining Greenpeace.' Citing their study of John, a host argues spiritual disciplines done apart from desire to know Jesus are 'going through the motions' — 'Jesus is the meat.' The group lands on: do not craft a movement, follow Jesus and watch it unfold — 'we're all on part of one big movement that Jesus started. It's called the Jesus movement, and we'll call it Christianity.'

  8. 35:58 4 min

    Shoes vs. shoe factory; war zone; Matthew 28

    The hosts adopt Breen's line — 'we're trying to sell shoes, where we should be trying to build the shoe factory' — and his war-zone analogy: discipleship is boot camp and hospital; sending undiscipled people is 'mass carnage waiting to happen.' One host notes Breen's Red Army wave analogy made him think of Revelation. They agree 'missional' without Christ at the root will fail, cite Matthew 28 ('if our mission is to make disciples'), and read Breen's leader questions ('Am I a disciple?'). The article is sourced to onthevergenetwork.org, Mike Breen, with a part two.

  9. 40:26 2 min

    Reading Michael Murray: 'I don't want to be a Christian writer'

    A host reads Michael Murray's piece: 'I don't wanna be a Christian writer if it means writing from the heart and then hitting backspace until it feels safe again' — faith as 'brutal, clumsy, fragile, ugly'; swearing even in prayer; baggage about the Bible and the church; 'I don't have my stuff together. Not at all.' Murray rejects performing godliness: 'This, my friends, is not godliness. This is the worst sort of hypocrisy.'

  10. 42:49 2 min

    First reactions: Dave, Mike, and a torn Ben

    • Is brutal honesty about not having it together a mark of integrity or just celebrating brokenness?

    Dave Herrick — the article's submitter, addressed by name — says he appreciates its brutal honesty and its rejection of 'fake it till you make it.' Mike, addressed by name, says he likes the honesty of swearing: better to swear until the Lord takes it away than censor it. A host says he tends to close the show down, so he will wait for Ben, who seems torn, before moving on.

  11. 44:31 9 min

    Ben's answer: celebrate the faith, not the chasm

    Ben, addressed by name as seeming torn, gives his extended take: integrity (from 'integer,' what cannot be divided) is right, but he worries the piece celebrates the chasm instead of the faith that fills it — 'a little bit of pride' in how much we can admit we suck. Drawing on Revelation — the martyrs asking 'how many more have to die' and hearing 'till enough have died' — he argues Jesus still calls to righteousness and joy, not contentment in the mess: 'you can't tell a deeper truth than what Christ offered.' He grants the rebellion against '80s/'90s fake-suit Christianity, and pushes back on not capitalizing God: 'Most pagans capitalize God as a simple form of reference.'

  12. 53:26 10 min

    Mugs, 'fallible,' and 'take your lampstand'

    The discussion pivots when the hosts learn Murray sells mugs and T-shirts proclaiming the article's slogan — 'this is not an integrity driven' piece, 'it's a sales pitch.' A running gag erupts over a host's recurring mispronunciation of 'fallible' as 'fallible'; Mike is teased by name: 'you say that wrong all the time.' A speaker lands the thesis: 'the opposite of pharisaical behavior is not holy... Jesus is holy.' The hosts press Matthew 5:7 and Revelation's 'I will take your lampstand' against a 'brokenness as ministry' banner, joking the mug should read 'I will take your lampstands,' and coin the 'burn Trump' gospel — 'feel the Bern' meets 'vote for Trump.'

  13. Dear LFTP 1:03:27 5 min

    Dear LFTP: the 80-year-old father

    • Should the listener confront their 80-year-old father about his unkempt appearance?

    Dear LFTP letter: a listener's 80-year-old father — once a businessman with many contacts — is now unkempt, unshaven, sagging pants, fingernails full of dirt; the writer dreads the funeral-home presentation and fears confronting him. The hosts' answer: the funeral home will clean him up ('those guys have seen everything'); do mention it gently, since it may signal coordination trouble or depression; and 'he's 80 years old — he doesn't care.' The Secular answer is read: check whether he is depressed or becoming demented, encourage a senior group, and rest assured the funeral director handles presentation as standard procedure.

  14. Dear LFTP 1:08:23 3 min

    Dear LFTP: friends who only talk about husbands and kids

    • How should the listener handle friends who only talk about their husbands and children?

    Dear LFTP letter: a listener befriends women through shared husband-and-children common ground, then finds they talk about nothing else; she is tired of hearing their children's names and is distancing herself. The hosts push back — the common bond of motherhood groups is motherhood; stop meeting women through doting-mothers channels and make friends through sports, travel, work, or church instead. The Secular answer: 'Birds of a feather flock together' — join a college class, a political campaign, a hospital volunteer group, a museum crowd.

  15. 1:11:27 5 min

    Caucus results and sign-off

    Caucus results: Ted Cruz the projected Iowa Republican winner at 28%, Trump 24%, Rubio 23% with 99% reporting; Democrats a 50-50 Clinton-Sanders split with O'Malley at 1% and 95% reporting. The hosts roast O'Malley's eight voters ('There goes Mike Foust. He guarded 1% of the vote'), Kasich's 2%, and the bravado of staying in the race; Bernie at '666' becomes 'the fourth horse... the son of the Byrne.' They pitch a future all-night election broadcast with Dave Herrick finding a man on the ground in Ohio, and sign off: 'Human is alive and fast. Be faithful, man.'

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